distemper? Best answer on the web
I would really apprichiate thoughts on the following subject.
I have a 7 month old black great dane, female. At 5 months she had 2 siezures, 5 days apart. After numerous tests, cases such as liver and kidney abnormalities have been rulled out. She was diagnosed as epileptic and put on KBr solution immediatelly after the 2nd seizure. She has not had a seizure since. I moved to another city, and went to another vet for the KBr refill today. He is telling me that her seizures may be due to distemper, and that i need to get spinal fluid drawn and tested for distemper. I am reluctant to do this since she seems healthy, is eating well, has no diharea, fever, caughing or any other signs of distemper from what i have read and is an active puppy (as far as danes go) that is growing well and looking well.
On the other hand, i know that 5 months is very young for epilepsy. At 5 months, she did have diharea for about 2 weeks. I attributed this to drastic changes in her diet recomemded by her breader. She was otherwise healthy at that time also.
So, my question is, could she have had distemper and gotten over it (i think this is highly unlikely), could she currently have it or do i need to look for another vet?
Thank you.
Petra
(Below the CIE stuff, some basics on distemper.)
Here's some stuff on CIE=EPILEPSY:
Idiopathic seizures are among the most common neurologic signs in dogs. They are the result of sudden functional disturbances in the brain caused by excessive electrical discharge. They usually appear suddenly, last from several seconds to a few minutes, and stop abruptly. they tend to be spontaneous and are not triggered by any specific stimulus. They may be preceded by a short period of character or behavioral ateration(anxiety, depression,
excitement, agitation). The dog may hide, tremble, whimper, seek his owner's attention, and/or wander around the house nervously. Seizures are characterized by one or a combination of the following signs:
(1) transitory impairment of consciousness (which does not need to be complete)
(2) involuntary and uncontrollable movements
(3) Salivation, defecation, urination, pupil dilation:
(4) Abnormal behavior or psychic manifestations and
(5)altered perception
The owner may often be more distressed by the period following the seizure than by the actual seizure. This postictal phase can last from a few minutes to several hours. During this time the dog may
(1) fall into a deep sleep from exhaustion
(2) pace aimlessly
(3) act disoriented
(4)bump into objects
(5)walk in an uncoordinated manner
(6) exhibit a ravenous appetite
(7) literally destroy the house
Seizures can be caused by a structural (lesions disturbing the normal architecture of the brain) focal brain disease (congenital anomaly, infection, tumor, trauma ect... and are usually not observed with idiopathic epilepsy.
In dogs generalized seizures predominate. Generalized seizures represent 80% of epileptic seizures in dogs. Diseases outside the brain can also cause seizures by disturbing the neuroelectrical balance. such disease processes are referred to as extracranial causes of seizures: they are mainly toxic and or metabolical disorders. Seizures can also be the result of direct brain involvement such as (1) diseases or anomalies altering the architecture
of the brain
(2) functional problems(hyperexcitability of the cells without obvious changes in the structure of the brain)
Idiopathic epilepsy can be defined as intracranial, recurrent seizures of unknown cause. this disorder can be found in all pedigree breeds as well as in mixed breed dogs. Its high incidence in certain breeds suggests that idiopathic epilepsy has a genetic pre disposition. Its frequent occurrence in certain breeds would seem to be based on individual breeding lines and could be supported by the fact that the incidence per breed can change markedly
over time. Extensive pedigree studies of the more severely affected breeds have been conducted and provide evidence of genetic predisposition, if not transmission. Therefore genetic transmission probably plays and important role in idiopathic epilepsy. Although not all cases of idiopathic epilepsy are transmitted genetically, breeding idiopathic epileptic dogs and their first degree relatives is not advised. the mode of inheritance is largely
unknown. A sex linkage, limitation, or modification is possible, especially because of reports of higher incidence among male dogs. A genetic factor has been proven or at least highly suspected in the following breeds: beagle, dachshund, German shepherd dog, keeshound, Belgian tervuren, and horak's laboratory dogs. Other breeds(boxer, cocker spaniel, collie, golden retriever, irish setter, labrador retriever, miniature schnauzer, poodle, saint bernard,
siberian husky, and wirehaired fox terrier) have a high incidence of idiopathic epilepsy, but genetic studies have not yet been conducted or documented.
The age of onset of idiopathic epilepsy ranges between 6 months and 5 years of age. Obviously other disease processes could cause seizures in dogs in that age range. Idiopathic epilepsy is most likely in dogs (1) that are healthy otherwise (2) that are normal between seizures (3) that have generalized seizures (4) that have an initial frequency of seizures lower than or equal to one seizure every 4 to 6 weeks (there are exceptions to this rule and
in certain breeds the initial frequency of seizures could even be as much as multiple seizures per day) (5) that have baseline blood work within normal limits (6) with known or suspected breed predisposition (7) with normal physical and neurologic examinations.
Idiopathic epilepsy is a diagnosis by exclusion! A diagnosis is made if all the tests available to evaluate the brain and the general health of a dog reveal no abnormalities. It is often unnecessary to perform invasive (spinal tap) or expensive MRI procedures to make a presumptive diagnosis of idiopathic epilepsy as long as the signalment (age, breed), seizure pattern, general health, physical and neurologic examination findings and blood work are
consistent with idiopathic epilepsy. It may be useful to perform a complete neurologic evaluation including spinal fluid analysis and mri in purebred dogs destined for reproduction in order to rule out other causes of seizures before excluding a bitch or sire from the breeding pool or to detect other potential brain or metabolic anomalies. It is important to document new cases of idiopathic epilepsy in breeds not know to have a predisposition.
part 2 drugs and treatment
The treatment of idiopathic epilepsy in dogs is mainly achieved with anticonvulsants. The decision to treat ido ep should be ultimately made by a well informed owner guided by a veterinarian. Treatment failures are usually the result of ref\ractory epilepsy or progressive disease, but also may be due to inadequate owner education or poor compliance. An owner must be committed to consistently giving the medication every day at the appropriate time and
possibly for life..... A sudden change or discontinuation of the anticonvulsant drug may be disastrous: it may induce status epilepticcus, a potentially life threatening condition in which a seizure lasts more than 15 minutes or multiple seizures do not give the dog the chance to recover in between. Owners should be prepared to make frequent adjustments in the dosage, schedule, or combination of drugs. Regular evaluations by the vet and blood
levels of the med are essential elements to manage an epileptic dog.
Although complete elimination of seizures is certainly a goal, it is not a realistic expectation for most animals. Often successful treatment is manifested by reduction in the frequency duration and or severity of seizures... Seizures should be treated aggressively and promptly.
The choice of anticonvulsants is primarily limited to Phenobarbital and potassium bromide in dogs... there is no universally accepted third drug, but several other anticonvulsants could be tried in case of seizures refractory to the two previously cited meds.
The ideal anticonvulsant should surpress seizures completely without side effects or toxicity. UNFORTUNATELY SUCH A DRUG DOES NOT EXIST!
Pheno is effective, inexpensive, and needs to be given 2xdaily. the side effects are sedation increased thirst, urination, appetite, and often weight gain. LIVER DAMAGE, wich can be fulminant and LETHAL has a occured in a small number of patients. A decrease in the number of certain blood cells has also been observed. Complete blood cell count should be performed periodically to ensure that there is no change in the cell count....
Potassium bromide is a drug that has been introduced recently in veterinary medicine to treat seizures. Recent reports have shown its efficacy and safety both as a single agen and as and add on to pehno. Potassium bromide is now frequently used in vet medicine and seems even preferred to phenol by some vets.. Give only once daily and inexpensive. The side effects are comparable to pheno. but often appear less severe. the sedation may last up to 3
weeks. Hindlimb weakness or incoordination especially if persistent in over several days, is usually an indication of overdose.
@~~~Jami Larson~~~@
For the ESS/WSS/SS study:
> http://www.essfta.org/epilepsy.htm
And here is the url for the University of Missouri study:
> http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/
DISTEMPER VIRUS INFECTIONS:
Clinical signs vary, depending on the virulence of the virus strain, environmental conditions, and the host age and immune status. ******More than 50% to 70% of CDV are probably subclinical (meaning unseen by the owner).***** Mild forms of clinical disease are also common (and can be often missed), with signs including (any or all or just one of these symptoms) listlessness, deecreased appetite, fever, and upper respiratory tract infections. Runny discharge from the nose and/or eyes, which may dissapear or may become infected-looking. "Kennel Cough" like symptoms may be seen. Dry eye may occur. Some dogs lose their sense of smell. In acute cases in puppies diarrhea may be seen. Usually the first signs are a discharge from the eyes & a dry cough that follows & may become moist, both of which
may dissapear in a few days to 3 wks. maximum (if the dog survives). When "Kennel Cough" is diagnosed many times actually distemper is present.
1-3 weeks *LATER* surviving dogs may show neurological signs. ***THERE IS NO WAY TO PREDICT which dogs will get neurological disorders, or what kind or how severe. Dogs can get the neurological signs without having had signs of a prior Distemper infection. Neurological signs are typically progressive & intermittent. Neurological complications of canine distemper are the most significatnt councering prognosis and recovery from infection. Seizure activity can be of any type: local or general, often or rare. St. Vitus Dance (where brow & head muscles twitch), "chewing gum" local seizures and grand mals are all seen. Twitching, in the absence of seizures, is also seen.
"INCREASED ANTI-CDV antibody (in the spinal fluid) offers DEFINIATE EVIDENCE FOR DISTEMPER....." Steriods and anti-convulsants are used to treat seizures and twitching associated with distemper.
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